Talk: Waffen-SS

From open-encyclopedia.com - the free encyclopedia.

Volunteers/conscripts

Why are the Totenkopf listed twice? Were there to different divisions? Also the last line about service being voluntary until 1944 - does this mean that service in the Waffen was voluntary for ordinary SS members or for civilians? --rmhermen

Prior to 1944, the Waffen-SS was an all-volunteer force (freiwilligen) open to all Europeans of "Nordic" ancestry. In that year, the Germans started conscripting into the Waffen-SS, and therefore it was no longer completely voluntary. John

AUS/NZ volunteers

"Later there were the SS Freiwilligenverbände (SS Volunteer Units) from countries and regions such as ... Australia (within the Britisches Freikorps)... the British Empire (Britisches Freikorps)... New Zealand (within the Britisches Freikorps..."

I am removing the explicit links to Australia and New Zealand and replacing British Empire with "Britain and Commonwealth". There were the sum total of 10 volunteers from Commonwealth countries (these included Canadians and South Africans) out of the thousands of Waffen-SS volunteers. Commonwealth should suffice for Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians and South Africans. See Talk:British_Free_Corps for more info. Kudz75 05:34, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Thugs? Elite?

This (sub)thread was moved from Talk:SS#Thugs. For more discussion of history writing on the SS proper, please visit that talk page.

4. [of 6] Must we continue to glorify the military exploits of the Waffen SS and completely ignore the grossly criminal activites of the entire [SS] organization? How long long will we continue to glorify the military prowess of this private army? They were no better than the SA they just had more political pull and were albe to nearly subvert Germany.

5. [of 6] I removed the elite moniker from the first sentance in the first paragraph [of the SS article]. What made them elite? They were no better trained than the army, they received better equipment later on and never changed their TOE to adapt to the war. Several of their earlier divisions, 1st thru 12th, with some of the later ones, fought harder and more fanatically. What about the remaining ones? The Foreign Legions, esp those of non-Germans. These private armies within a private army were mediocre at best. The Heer fielded many superior units to the SS, ie all the Panzer and Panzer Grenadier divisions. How about GrossDeutchland? PanzerLehr? We won't even go into the 16 to 20 Parachute divisions. What made the SS elite, again I ask you? --Tomtom 13:57, 26 Jul 2004

Their war academy in Bad-Tölz, Bavaria? At least, that's what I have read. The books written by Norwegian Waffen-SS veterans corraborates this, and also that several of the foreign units were looked upon as elite even by the Germans. Of course, one must take into consideration that the veterans themselves are the sources (but then again, who but they and the Red Army troops were present to observe their doings?). My reading also indicates that there were significant differences between the Waffen-SS and the Allgemeine-SS with regard to cruelty (although the Waffen-SS also performed many hideous acts, of course). --Wernher 17:16, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Funny how every German veteran of the war that I know, and I know many, all fought the Russians, and they all surrendered to the west. Why is that? pursuing policies of lebensraum? The Waffen SS were part of a criminal organization. Both part and all were involved in ethnic cleansing, reprisals, how about the manner in which the foreign legions so atrocially cleared the Warsaw ghetto that even the SS groung commanders wanted them out? As for bad tolz...as an officer school it was just as good as any other junkerschule...however, it tought racial supremecy and all the rest of Nazi doctrine. just because the SS pioneered the wearing of camouflage uniforms and teh use of magine gun teams does not make them elite. Patton was most unimpressed by them both in combat and as prisoners. When FM Rommel was offered SS troops in north Africa he also refused them. Why do you think tahat was? Read his memoirs. --Tomtom 15:08, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I repeat that have read stuff stating the contrary of what you write here. However, I will certainly get and read Rommel's memoirs. I also have a (non-auto)biography of him lying around to be read. As regards the Nazi doctrine taught at Bad Tölz: of course they taught the Nazi world view (Weltanschauung) -- the SS was a Nazi organization! Nothing about that is controversial (but bad/evil, naturally). Re: the atrocities in the Warsaw ghetto, I admit that I didn't know foreign legions were involved there. IIRC the Nordic SS-units were all fighting exclusively at the deep Eastern front (from Karelia to the Caucasus) and no other places (until the tides turned big time, of course, and the German military machine backed up all the way to Berlin). Please note that I do not, in any way, excuse the Waffen-SS of their deeds. And: I have read/heard accounts from Norwegian Waffen-SS veterans only (AFAIK no Norwegians served in the regular Wehrmacht). --Wernher 20:14, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)