Talk: Sun Yat-sen
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He was a great guy, I wish that he could have lived longer. The reality is, after his death, Jiang's KMT lost, and Mao's communist party won. He was quite admirable, for both KMT and Mao's communist party to admire him as an important figure. -Jan
The passage from the President of ROC website:
中山先生早年行醫，因目睹滿清政府腐敗無能，國家一再遭受外國侵略，情勢危急，民生凋敝，決心從事革命運動，推翻滿清帝制，重建民國；於是在甲午（一八九四）年十月創立興中會，揭示振興中華的宗旨，開始革命救國大業，並在一九○五年八月，正式提出民族、民權、民生三大主義。中山先生所領導的革命運動，經過了十次失敗，最後在辛亥（一九一一）年十月十日的武昌起義，一舉成功，歷經五千年的帝制終於宣告結束。 同年十二月二十五日，各省代表在南京集會，選舉中山先生為中華民國臨時大總統，並且決定以辛亥年十一月十三日，也就是一九一二年一月一日，為中華民國開元之日，定為中華民國元年元旦，亞洲第一個民主共和國－中華民國正式誕生。中山先生就任以後，首先通電各省選派參議員前往南京，組成國家最高民意機關－參議院，隨後訂定「臨時政府組織大綱」及「中華民國臨時約法」為國家基本大法；民國八年中山先生完成「建國方略」一書，提出以三民主義建設一個極和平、極自由、極平等的國家。民國十年，中山先生當選中華民國大總統，並在民國十二年發布宣言，聲明以三民主義為立國的根本，以五權憲法為制度的綱領。 民國十三年由於軍閥戰事不斷，中山先生秉持和平奮鬥救中國的信念，在十一月十日發表北上宣言，提出召開國民會議及廢除不平等條約的主張之後，在十三日抱病從廣州啟程前往北京準備共商國事，民國十四（一九二五）年三月十二日不幸病逝北京，享壽六十歲。
Saved it here for future reference. Some of the terms are virtually unknown in English and researching them on google would take more time than I initially thought. The passage was almost translated php. Ktsquare
This article needs to be edited for NPOV. It relies too heavily on the official Kuomintang view of Sun Yatsen and doesn't include prespectives from the Communist Party or in post-1970 revisionist historians who argue that Sun really wasn't that important in the 1911 revolution.
I moved the page following a request on wikipedia:votes for deletion. Let me know if there's a problem, and I'll move it back. Martin
Changed. I've never heard Sun Yat-Sen refered to as guo fu in Mainland China.
Need we add tone-number on the Cantonese pronunciation? --Samuel 08:06, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- Sure. --Menchi 04:59, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC)
From the official ROC bio: "Dr. Sun denied the inevitability of communism in China. He believed that class struggle, an intrinsic element of communism, was not a requirement of human progress. He reiterated this point in a joint declaration issued with Soviet envoy Adolf Joffe in 1923, which stated that the communist system was not suitable for China. He also believed that cooperation rather than class struggle was the motive force for social development."
This may be worth noting, regarding his legacy in mainland China. --Jiang 04:18, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC)
One might add an early years section, stressing his struggles and being more or less persecuted by the emperial Chinese government. A quite well known fact is, that he was held hostage in the London's Chinese embassy (he was kidnapped there). Somehow he could contact the former dean of his medical college in Hong Kong, now in London. Eventually the British foreign ministry intervened. (Sorry, I do not find the source, but it was during the very first exile)
Well documented on http://sunyatsen.hawaii.org/english/visits/fifth/index.html with original sources is how he pretended (and sweared) to be of Hawaiian birth. This was needful to enter the US in spite of the petition by the Chinese ambassador.
by Vittorio Brambilla Feb 14 2004
Removed: "partly as a way of improving relations with supports of Chinese reunification on Taiwan"
The statement is unsubstantiated. Perhaps it is true, but there's no evidence to support this. I think it has to do more with replacing Chinese nationalism with communism as a means of promoting the state/party as communism has become less relevant with economic reforms. --Jiang 04:27, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Should this article be moved to the pinyin name, Sun Yixian? WhisperToMe 05:02, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Probably not. "Sun Yat-sen" is a whole lot more common in English, and "Sūn Zhōngshān" is what they call him in Chinese. - Nat Krause 07:38, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Names section
I disagree with the last edit by User:Madw.
What is relevant in the intro is not what all his various names are, but what most people know him by. The fact that Chinese-speaking people almost always call him Sun Zhongshan while English-speaking people call him Sun Yat-sen was removed. Is Yixian not a courtesy name? Why was it removed as such? Also removed was where he is called Guofu. When we introduce a person, it is best to list out all the names commonly used, but the other names aren't used so they're not introductory material. If a name section is inappropriate, then move the names to the relevant part of the bio that discusses the era he used them.
In addition, Tang means 'political party' so "Kuomintang political party" is a redundant phrase. --Jiang 22:00, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)
The romanizations Syun Yaht-sin and Sun i-hsien receive so few google hits that I don't think they're worth listing. --Jiang 22:18, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- I've addressed most of the concerns here. Guofu was never removed and remains (though not in pinyin - add it if you want). I would welcome a discussion on which names should or should not be included in the intro. I don't have a problem with keeping all of them, and I certainly think the Wade-Giles Sun I-hsien should be retained, but there may be others which need not be listed here.
General request: For the time being, please do not change the style of the introduction for this article as it is currently the subject of discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style for China-related articles. Thank-you - Madw 01:46, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)
- As the proposal has not been written into the MoS and is currently the subject of discussion, it should not be implemented here. Link to the page history instead. --Jiang 20:15, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Dose anyone knows his motto before he eliminated the MANCHU EMPIRE? HIS MOTTO WAS "DRIVE OUT THOSE TARTARS,BARBERIANS AND RECOVER CHINA".HERE TARTARS AND BARBERIANS HE MEANT WERE MANCHUS, AND BY SAYING "RECOVER CHINA" HE OBVIOUSLY MEANT MANCHURIA IS NOT CHINA AS WELL AS MANCHUS ARE NOT CHINESE!
Dr. Sun's US immigration file
Fascinating account of Dr. Sun's US immigration file: No Such Sun Yat-sen An Archival Success Story (by Neil L. Thomsen). Needs to be fact-checked, of course. A-giau 23:00, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
