Talk: Sima Qian
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Hi groupmates,
Well, interestingly there's a lot of background stuff already done here on sima qian. Unfortunately, I found out quite a few are blatantly cut and pasted from another website. And I'll rephrase them later.
Well, nice meeting u guys.
Btw, since we already got the background stuffs, now we go straight to research topic related to our topic right? Any good suggestions? (we allowed to talk about them right?)
Forgot to login. the above is messaged by me. I'm Heyson.
Good. Please keep communicating with your groupmates on this page. Best, Olga. TA
Hello all my groupmates,
so happy to have a chance to work with you all. As regards the already existed information, I've checked that the content is accurate, but I think we can better organize it, like adding back the titles or dividing it into different sections. To begin with, maybe we can first decide how many sections we should have in our page.
I also hope that we can all communicate and exchange the ideas through this page.
Please sign off on your messages with your name and time stamp! Lfcho 15:49, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)lfcho
Hi again, Nice work guys. Keep it up!
Hi all. Sorry I am late. I am working on Sima Qian as well. Currently I am reading the articles about Qian. --0101NGks 04:09, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)NGks
Hello groupmates,
So happy to see that our page is now better organized. However, one point I would like to raise is that Sima Qian is actally not a journalist in a strict sense. Though Shiji had important impact on journalism, it is not a journalistic publication, at least,it is not the intention of Sima Qian. Therefore, I just wonder would it be better if we focus on the impact of Sima Qian and Shiji on journalism and change the headings a little bit so that not to make it to subjective?
Hope all of you can post your opinion here regarding this.05:58, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)~0101CHEUNGKH2:00 p.m. 12 oct
In reply to the post a bit far back, here are some of the topics that i can think of..
Cultural Hero
Impacts to Historical Texts AND LITERATURE
More details to the Lingli incident: linking that to his post as an imperial official.
Literature IN HIS TEXT: an appraisal
etc..
These are the standard ones, appreciated if anyone have better suggestions..
From some raedings i did, Sima Qian was actually grew up inside the emperor's inner court, instead of the rural settings as mentioned in the wikipedia. So maybe you guys can try to verify this in your research. Thanks^^
Oh yea.. and regarding to my previous discussion post(the first post).. about finding that there was a source similiar to this.. it was a mistake.. cuz the websites i found out, surprisingly were all from the wikipedia..
Anyway there are more to improve on this article...
cheers~~
--0101YOUNGhy 06:03, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
HI, groupmates,
I have some suggestions and comments regarding our existing page. First of all, I appreciate the pictures that our grouopmate found as they make the page seems more "pro". However, regarding the content, I have make a few amendments such as changing the word"journalistic publication",for Taichuoli was not an journalistic article and Shiji was actually an histriography. I have asked Li, our teacher assistant on this and she suggested that it is unnecessary for us to "pretend" Sima Qian was a journalist and Shiji was an "journalisic article" as both were not applicable to Sima Qian's time!and we should all remember that "journalism's first obligation is to the truth".
I hope we all can improve on the page and think carefully what information we should keep in the page.
Hope we can do a best page.~0101CHEUNGKH
Dear groupmates,
I just found out that there is a mistake in our page. I have checked the book about the biography of Sima Qian, regarding the Li Ling Affair. Wudi actually asked him to use money to atone his fault or castration, but not execution or castration. Besides, Qian choose the latter was not because he wanted to finish Shiji (as at that time Sima Qian had not yet started to write Shiji!!!) Therefore, I have make an amendment on this.0101CHEUNGKH0101CHEUNGKH
Hi guys, Sorry I'm late. Anyway when I first read the article, it tasted like, indeed, a piece of assignment instead of an article that should be appeared in an encyclopedia. Why should we eye on his contribution to Journalism? I know we're doing a project for our course of Journalism but it'd be a bit strange to outsiders. Your thought. (by Almond, --0101WONGfm 04:49, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC))
| Contents |
It is time for us to choose an editor for this page
Hello, i had found some interesting pictures. hope you will like it.
Also Thank you for contributing the project, right now, we got enough information, but our page isn't very well organized. thus, i would like to ask volunteer , who is good at english , to try to make it consistent in the style of writing. (I feel sorry that I am not proficient in writing english >.< )
More, I would like to delete some para, which is related to the journalism , coz our project is supposed to be seen by the world, and they are not taking a journal class. (by LO, --0101LOcw)
Hi groupmates,
I also think it's a difficult problem in making a balance regarding the proportion of journalism in this project. However, the required research questions are also predominately regarding on journlaism. So do we need to answer all those suggested questions? Does anyone has any suggestion on this? Pls feel free to comment on this.0101CHEUNGKH0101CHEUNGKH
Hi~ groupmates, sorry for coming late. I think the article has covered most of the required research questions. Since the topic of this project is 'Journalists as Great Authors', I think we should include some literary component in the article. SO I added something about literature in the article.0101CHANYP
Hi groupmates,
I agree with groupmate Chan, since this project is titled "Journalists as Great Authors". It is no doubt that our focus should be put on " as a journalist" and "as an author". Besides, the research questions also addressed the contributions of the character on journalism and literature as well as the elements of journalism that he met. I hope we can on the right track. So happy we can communicate through this page.0101CHEUNGKH0101CHEUNGKH
Hi guys I agree that this page of Sima Qian is open to the public and will be read by people who do not study journalism.
It seems that we are putting too much emphasis on the link between Sima Qian and Journalism. Imagine if you are the user of the internet, i am sure that you dont know what "level 1, level 2, and level 3" mean.
And also, too many pictures in our page will surely distract the readers. We should delete some of them.
-- Hello fellows, Could you sign off your message with your signature and timestamp. Try the button right above the editing window. Thanks. (by Almond, --0101WONGfm 19:55, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC))
Hi groupmates,
I understand your concerns about the proportion of 'journalism' in our page. It is because Sima Qian is a historical figure and 'journalism' has not yet emerged during his time and so we'll feel strange in linking him to journalism.(which other groups won't encounter this problem as the person they do is definitely a journlaist) However, since the topic is "journalist as great author" and our course is indeed a journalism course, it is obvious that we need to make some linkage between the two. so I think we can now keep the stuff in our page first and edit them finally before we think carefully about the proportion.0101CHEUNGKH
Hi groupmates, I've just checked the e-mail sent bu Professor Chan, which stated that this project will be graded on the emphasis on journalism. Hope this will help us to reconsider how much should we focus on this aspect.0101CHEUNGKH
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Hello, I got some suggestions about the proportion of "journalism". Since journalism has not appeared yet in the Han dynasty as Cheung mentioned, it is odd if we say Sima qian was a journalist, thus,
First, we should bear in mind that Sima qian only make great contribution on the later development of Journalism. This is our stance.
Second, we can figure out how Sima qian writing's attitude, style and method meeting the elements of journalism. While giving examples, we can mention some comtemporary journalists who are strongly influenced by Sima qian and always uphold his principle.
Lastly, remember to give neutral point of views, only the facts, no personal comments.(by LO, --0101LOcw)
Hi groupmates,
I agree with Lo that we should interlock our page with journalism by stating how Sima Qian influence the later development of journalism. By stating how Sima Qian meeting the three levels of journalism, the main point is not only linking to journalism but to give more details about Shiji.
===
I have no intention to delete the journalism thingy from this article (though it's rather odd showing the rest of the world that it's, indeed, a piece of assignment). But I did delete few sentences like "this valuable experience made him...". Because this is not "fact/history" but "how we interpret the fact/history" and seems we'll never find a way to prove that there's such a cause-and-effect. (by Almond, --0101WONGfm 10:22, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC))
Hello, groupmates, do you think that we should add more words on the historial achievements? since sima qian is a grand historian.....
and i have just made some sub-headings under the "a literar yauthor ",but i think it doesn't look pretty, how can i change it so as to look better?
Hi
I added 2 new paragraphs on history and literature influences. Also added a paragraph on the level 3 reporting abt the Grand Historian Remark. So maybe you can see if that suffice (in response to the previous dropin message).
Moreover, I don't know the Chinese translation for some names and I need you guys help me translating them.
I think it's almost time for us to edit. (And a lot of things to do on that, which i'm not able to do in these 2 days) So add oil la, group mates!!! --0101YOUNGhy 06:08, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Element of Journalism number 8
Element eight: Journalists must keep the news in proportion and make it comprehensive.
Hi Guys, so good to see such vibrant discussions. There is no need for you to strech the truth about Sima Qian in order to answer the research questions. I completely agree with your teammate "?":
"First, we should bear in mind that Sima qian only make great contribution on the later development of Journalism. This is our stance.
Second, we can figure out how Sima qian writing's attitude, style and method meeting the elements of journalism. While giving examples, we can mention some comtemporary journalists who are strongly influenced by Sima qian and always uphold his principle.
Lastly, remember to give neutral point of views, only the facts, no personal comments."
Use your best judgment, but whatever his connection to journalism is, it should be mentioned in the lead paragraph.
be sure to sign off your discussion message with 4 tilde signs (~) at the end like this:Lfcho 14:13, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)to include your name, time and date.
(JMSC0101 TA) - Li Lfcho 14:13, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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Suggest some of us to do this and some that, and stop adding things. I'm afraid we've been doing something similiar like verifying figures/numbers, checking grammar, finetuning, etc. To avoid changing the same material back and forth, perhaps we can do it in this way: groupmate A to check the tense, B to check the spelling, C to check the capitilization, D to check the numbers... etc (a bit tedious so please suggest). Think we should let go and not that greedy to rectify all the things by oneself, without knowing what the others are doing. I'm checking the spelling now. Your thought? (by Almond, --0101WONGfm 18:14, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC))
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Hello ~~While editing, I suggest visiting other group's web sites so that we can make comparison and learm from the other. ^.^ Work hard! I hope that our we site would be easy to read, thus, i am now trying to make some sub-title? Is there any good suggection?
I have added some no. to the topic.....but the "content", which is pink in color, looks strange at the same time , how can I do? Can anyone edit the "content"? (by LO, --0101LOcw 22:23, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC))
Re: Comments after Editing
Questions while editing.
Does anyone know what barbarian tribes exactly that was referred when he went west to perform military roles.
There are many words which i doubt whether we need to make links. Such as 'eclipse', 'sun'.
I think 'Feng Sacrifice' should have a link instead.
In terms of the influence, there should be more support on specifically how things/authors were influenced. There is thin materials on that.
Remember that we agreed that we should not refer him as a journalist
What is with the phrase from 'literature' - 'skillful depiction' - 'a large proportion conservation'?? May the contributor please check on what it means cuz i have no idea..
Add oil ma team-mates~
Cheers
0101YOUNGhy
Re: Smething to add
Also may also someone verify how we suppose to praise our sources. thx.
I have made some changes to the lit. part
and I think some pictures ,not to many, will be better for the project.
that is sufficed now .(by LO, --0101LOcw
i have deleted some analysis of information , coz it is not so much related and the para is too long
IMPORTANT: REFERENCE
We have not mentioned our references!!! Pls add your reference material for our site! If you don't know how, this is the way http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_your_sources
Add oil! One more day to go~
--0101YOUNGhy 18:25, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
important: chinese translation
can some please do some translation for me Ban Gu’s [Pan Ku’s] History of the Han (Han Shu)
--- to make it consistent, can someone change Pan Ku to Chinese characters please.
Thx!
0101YOUNGhy
note
A question:
I really think our arguement is quite thin for saying that sima qian effected the later development of journalism.
I tried to search but there is no direct linkage to the two.
In our section on "Contribution to the development of Journalism"
It's basically about how his writing fulfulls the 3 levels of reporting.
I suggest to change the title and the intro paragraph of that section.
Title something like: Sima Qian as a Role Model to Journalist
Any questions please raise in the discussion
cheers--0101YOUNGhy 20:00, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Hello Groupmates,
I agree that the argument of saying Sima Qian meeting the three levels = contributions is quite weak. Thus, I 've change the wordings a little bit. Besides, I've also change the wordings like "good" because "good" is too subjective and is too vague in meaning which is not a journalistic tone.
Although Sima Qian had no direct connection with journalism, I think he and Shiji really have influence in this sphere for his writing method and style are objective and netural. I think the only point is that journalism had not yet evolved at his time and thus we would find linking him with the topic difficult.
I also call for all of you to add external links and references on the page. Thanks 0101CHEUNGKH 05:01, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)0101CHEUNGKH
Caption for Pictures
For contributors who added pictures, please make a caption for it. Thx~ Or anyone who knows what to write abt them.
why was there only a few paragraphs..?? who chopped them all.. i added them back
