Talk: Printing press
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I've often heard that Gutenberg's contribution to the printing press was the development of movable type. As opposed to unique fixed blocks of text, Gutenberg used letters which could be rearranged for each page. I'm posting this on the Talk page since I don't know for sure that this is correct.
To my knowledge, your understanding is correct. I think it is alluded to in this article by the statement:
- Gutenberg refined the technique by inventing an oil-based ink and [metal type],
I added your information to the page as I also believe that the above statements are correct -- mike dill
"He is also credited with the first use of an oil-based ink, and using "rag" paper introduced into Europe from China by way of Muslims."
Odd way to say this - can anybody narrow down a little more specifically who these "Muslims" actually were?
I've tried downloading this picture, resizing it and re-uploading it, but for some reason, it isn't working. Can somebody fix the size, please? -- Zoe
Is that my fault because I am the one who put the initial big picture. Is uppercase extension problem? Anyway, I resized the picture. -- Taku 01:10 Feb 24, 2003 (UTC)
What do each of the numbers in the diagram refer to?
- Noldoaran 23:45, Nov 15, 2003 (UTC)
China & printing
The paragraph which follows seems a bit wobbly: "In China, there were no texts similar to the Bible which could guarantee a printer return on the high capital investment of a printing press, and so the primary form of printing was wood block printing which was more suited for short runs of texts for which the return was uncertain."
- I know nothing about the market for books in tenth century China, but the claim that block printing is more suited to short run work than metal type is not explainable by the economic argument used. The reason that Gutenberg's development took root so quickly is that it SAVED money as against the more expensive/time consuming method of block carving.
Setting a page of type was much quicker/cheaper than carving a large wood block. The shorter the run the more "damaging to the bottom line" this difference becomes. If it costs $2000 to originate a book by carving wood blocks and $1000 to do it by type setting, the cost pricture for editions of different lengths will be (assuming the cost of machining is the same for both methods -- let's say $1 --, and ignoring the capital cost -- which IS the real explanation)
Letterpress
100 @ $1 = $100 + $1000 = $1100, or $11 each
500 @ $1 = $500 + $1000 = $1500, or $3 each
1000 @ $1 = $1000 + $1000 = $2000, or $2 each
Wood Block
100 @ $1 = $100 + $2000 = $2100, or $21 each
500 @ $1 = $500 + $2000 = $2500, or $5 each
1000 @ $1 = $1000 + $2000 = $3000, or $3 each.
The point here is not wether these costs are correct: it's the relationship between the unit costs for the different quantities that's the point. The claim that "wood block printing was more suited for short runs" is exactly the opposite of the facts. At 100 copies wood block is 90% more expensive, while at 1000 it's only 50% more expensive.
- Now it's true that you couldn't run millions of copies from a wood block, but neither was Gutenberg running that many copies. The big reason why letterpress printing was not developed in the Far East is to do with the investment of capital: for whatever reasons (and no doubt the re are many) China was not a place where specualitve investments could be made, and their inventions were developed by others.
- Except that the explanation, explicit includes capital costs (i.e. the cost of the press). Once you include that then the cost becomes uncompetitive unless you are going to use the press a lot. Roadrunner 21:18, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Removed this. First of all, we do have a very good idea of the comparative literacy levels between China and Europe. Second, I'd like a reference for the second statement since it appears a bit odd. Roadrunner 21:18, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- In addition, the comparative literacy levels between China and Europe at this time are largely unknown. It is known that the output of printed material in Europe within two decades of the invention of the printing press far exceeded Chinese output at any previous time.
---
The article says:
- In Korea and China ... the primary form of printing was wood block printing which was more suited for short runs of texts...
But this is exactly backwards. Block printing is best suited for long runs, not short runs. Movable type is better suited for short runs of many different documents. -- Dominus 18:31, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Translation from German
- Article: de:Buchdruck (and some of the linked-to pages!)
- Corresponding English-language article: printing
- Worth doing because: German version is much more complete than English, english one is quite poor, doesn't cover topic adequately
- Originally Requested by: Lady Tenar 00:21, 4 May 2004 (UTC)
- Status: Got tired of this sitting here. I added most of the information from the German into printing press and some of it into printing. A few bits I left out as well. Maybe someone could take a look. I did a lot of Internet verification of details, but maybe this should be looked at more closely. Mpolo 18:54, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
- Other notes: May be this should be done by someone who knows a bit about the topic, i'm not doing it myself because i can't translate most of the words specific to printing
