Talk: Julian calendar

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Date links

In January 2004, 138.88.61.249 apparently removed all links to dates from this page. While the linkage may have been excessive, I could have done with links to 46 BC and 45 BC -- understandable for a page about calendars, no? As such, I've reinstated them, although not at the level they were before. JTN 17:32, 2004 Oct 4 (UTC)

Orthodox Use of the Julian Calendar

I revised the portion of the article dealing with the Orthodox Church's continuing use of the Julian Calendar. First, I wanted to distinguish sharply between the adoption of the New Calendar in Orthodox countries by the civil administrations and its (partial) adoption by some national churches. Accordingly, I put the material on Orthodox usage into a separate paragraph. Second, the article, before I changed it, left the impression that most Orthodox Christians adopted the revised Julian Calendar after 1923. In fact, world-wide, the great majority of Orthodox Christians (> 80%?) use nothing but the Old Calendar. I do not wish to debate which usage is correct (this is not the page for such sterile discussions), but I think it is important to be accurate about the numbers. jloukidelis 2004-10-17

Your description is confused and I suspect you misunderstand the 1923 proposal (you apparently regard it as virtually identical to the old Julian calendar whereas it is radically different). In your description you state that Easter and Pentecost are calculated using the "revised Julian calendar" but that the Nativity (the fixed date of 25 December) uses the "new calendar". This implies that you regard the revised Julian calendar and the new calendar as two different calendars. If they are different, then what is the "new" calendar? Is it the Gregorian calendar?

The 1923 proposal had two parts, solar and lunar. The solar part is described in revised Julian calendar. Thirteen days were removed to bring it into agreement with the present Gregorian calendar, but its leap years were different. If the year number is evenly divisible by four it is a leap year, unless it is evenly divisible by 100 then it is not, unless division by 900 leaves a remainder of 200 or 600 then it is a leap year. Because 2000 divided by 900 leaves 200 it is a leap year as it is in the Gregorian calendar. Because 2100 divided by 900 leaves 300 which is neither 200 nor 600 then it is not a leap year in agreement with the Gregorian calendar. Similarly for 2200 and 2300. Because 2400 divided by 900 leaves 600 it is also a leap year just as it is in the Gregorian calendar. But 2800 divided by 900 leaves 100 which is neither 200 nor 600 so it is not a leap year unlike the Gregorian calendar. So the revised Julian calendar will be equal to the Gregorian calendar until 2800 (which is what I said in the description you reverted). Thus for the next few centuries any country or church which adopted the solar part celebrates its fixed dates on the same dates as in the Gregorian calendar, which is what I think you were trying to say. The revised Julian calendar article states that the solar part was adopted by the Greek and Syrian Orthodox Churches (though a few Old Calendar churches in those countries continue to use the Julian calendar), but the Russian and Serbian Orthodox Churches did not, so they celebrate the Nativity on 25 December (Julian) which is 7 January (Gregorian).

The lunar part of the 1923 proposal was quite different and was not adopted by any country or church, so neither Easter nor Pentecost nor any other moveable feast uses the "revised Julian calendar" as you state — all continue to use the old Julian calendar. The lunar portion actually tried to adopt astronomical rules at Jerusalem. It would have made Easter the first Sunday after the full moon that is the first to occur on or after the vernal equinox, where day is midnight-to-midnight at Jerusalem. Here, both full moon and vernal equinox are the astronomical instants. This was so radical that no Orthodox church was willing to accept it, so all continue to celebrate Easter and Pentecost according to the old Julian calendar.

An Orthodox link is On the question of the "Revised Julian Calendar".
— Joe Kress 17:10, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

"Revised" Julian calendar

Your points are well taken, so by all means change what I have written.

My difficulties, as I stated, were otherwise, and I would have my changes on those points preserved. That is, first, let us draw a sharper distinction between the adoption of the Gregorian Calendar by the civil administrations in various Orthodox countries vs the adoption of the New Calendar by two (actually, I think it was three) Orthodox national churches; and, second, let's be clearer about the relative numbers of Orthodox Christians who follow the New vs the Old Calendar (without being drawn into a debate on the merits of one vs the other).

JL 2004-10-18