Talk: John Locke
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Hello, I'm thinking of adding and modifying a few things, like changing Locke's status as an Enlightenment to a 17th century philosopher and expanding and clarifying the parts about the Essay. 5 Nov 2004
there needs to be mention here of his view on the social contract. Kingturtle 18:32, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I wonder whether mentioining that hew was much influenced by Polish brethren thoughts (he had their works in his library) szopen
They need to mention the Earl of Shaftesbury.
User:david
- There is now a link to Lord Shaftesbury's page. --Publunch 11:16, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Some flaws
There needs to be a more detailed discussion of his philosophy, especially his _Essay Concerning Human Understanding_ and the _Two Treatises of Civil Government_, although perhaps not to the point of making separate entries redundant. The social and political context in which Locke worked would also be valuable. He was raised by Puritans and associated himself with a number of political subversives (and participated in the Rye House Plot). The discussion of Locke vis-a-vis the American Revolution seems a bit POV, and reminds me of the assertions made by Lyndon LaRouche and his followers. It may be that Locke's views, viewed in toto, were not a perfect match for the ideology of the American Revolution, but to say that they exercized no influence is false. Jefferson himself declared that the Declaration of Independence was "all Locke."
- The article doesn't say that Locke's views "exercized no influence" on the American revolution, but that he was not "an important intellectual influence" on it. Of course, it partly depends on how you define "important". Jefferson was the most intellectual of the "revolutionaries"; I would be surprised if Locke made much of an impression on Patrick Henry for example. (But this is probably a matter for people who know American history better than 18th century philosophy.) That sentence definitely needs to be fixed however, since you can be opposed to some movement even if you are at the same time an influence on it.
- I apologize for overstating the case, but Locke's influence on Jefferson certainly had consequences that, perhaps mistakenly, I view as important. Locke's philosophy was by no means the exclusive influence; Bernard Bailyn's _Ideological Origins of the American Revolution_ certainly illustrates the varied motivations for seeking independence. As for Locke's 'opposition' to the American Revolution, I must admit to some misgivings for the reason that Locke lived and wrote in a separate context from that of the revolutionaries. We might speculate that he would have opposed the Revolution, but since he died 71 years before the outbreak of hostilities we can only evaluate his views in their context. Although most colonists in 1704 would have bristled at an authoritarian imperial policy (if the experience in New England is any indication), independence was not high on their list of concerns. It should also be noted that the American Revolution happened after liberal values had over 70 years to flourish (and perhaps diverge from Locke's vision) in the mother country.
- Why don't you modify the Locke article along these lines? No one seems to be doing much work on it at the moment, and I think your familiarity with Bailyn's book qualifies you to do it. (I bought the book but never read it...) You might even consider writing a paragraph about whether Locke would have supported the American revolution. (I would guess he would have, given that to the best of my memory Burke, the "father of conservatism" who reacted against Locke's liberalism, supported it. But given the time difference of almost a century which you point out, the question might not be one that makes much sense.) I'm new to wikipedia, but I think it thrives on people with developed views on a subject putting their thoughts down in articles. -- Hyperion 05:07, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I agree absolutely that Shaftesbury's influence on Locke should be noted. There would have been no Locke as we know him without Shaftesbury.
Hyperion 20:58, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
The phrase 'British empiricist' is used, if I click on it, I get redirected to 'empiricism'. I prefer 'english empiricist' to 'British empiricist', where 'english' is the language that these people used. Berkeley was Irish, and Hume and Reid were Scottish. Maybe just 'empiricist' is best, because Scots don't like being called English and Irish people don't like being called British. --Publunch 18:49, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I've started to put some more content in, but I am all too aware that this entry is still inadequate. I know a bit about the Essay, but need an historian and a political philosopher to write about his life and about the Two Treatises. Maybe I'll do some reading and then see if I can precis what I have found out. --Publunch 11:58, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Probably won't do much more to this page now, not because it is perfect, but because I've got as far as I can get and I've got other things to see to.--Publunch 11:16, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
are all of the links necessary? law, america, etc...
The social history of John Lock's Family
Recently i review a somewhat "sketchie" genealogy of the English/American FISKE family, of which it is suggested John's mother was a Fiske. The details of the period in which he grew up must have had a great influence on his later writtings. What is known about his pedegree and youth?
