Talk: Ismaili
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General
All info prior to 2 Aug 2003 has been completely replaced on 16 Aug 2003 by 171.67.88.19. I don't know how to merge them. --Menchi 01:28, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)
That version was a copy from http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/i/ismaili.htm, so I reverted to the 2 Aug version. RickK 01:31, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)
There is a factual error. Ali was the cousin of Muhammad not his nephew. The later part is corect that Ali was married to Muhammad's daughter Fatima
All info prior to 2 Aug 2003 has been completely replaced on 16 Aug 2003 by 171.67.88.19. I don't know how to merge them. --Menchi 01:28, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)
That version was a copy from http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/i/ismaili.htm, so I reverted to the 2 Aug version. RickK 01:31, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)
There is a factual error. Ali was the cousin of Muhammad not his nephew. The later part is corect that Ali was married to Muhammad's daughter Fatima
The Other Ismailis
When is somebody going to write an article on the other Sever group, the Daoodi Bohras, who split Ismailism when they rejected Nizar in favor of his brother Al-Musta'li during the Egyptian Fatimid dynasty?
It's not that I care personally, I'm not Muslim let alone Dawoodi, it's just that it doesn't seem fair to talk only of the Aga Khan's Khojas when discussing Ismailis. It's a bit like discussing Protestantism without mentioning the Baptists.
One interesting angle is that, from what I've read about the Bohras they're far closer to "traditional" Islam in their outward practice than the Agakhanids; I remember very dimly one reference saying that except for their Muharram observance (which the Khojas don't bother with much) they're closer in practice to the Sunnis than the other Shi'ites -- including the Twelvers.
But no, I respectfully decline to write it myself. I'm just too damn disorganized in the head to make an adequate Encyclopedist, however much I'd love the prestige. (But I will be happy to go to Mumbai to do research if somebody will take up a collection for my plane ticket!)
Anyway. Their official web site (AFAICT) is www.bohra.net; you'd also get oodles of hits off Google.
The official website for the Dawoodi Bohra's is www.mumineen.org.
- Have just started a page for the Dawoodi Bohras but it is in fact nothing more than a stub at present. am currently reading some history on the Bohras and should end up adding more material. Anyone else wishing to contribute is more than welcome.
- Hulleye 11:06, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Needs an overhaul
As noted, the article in it's current state has no mention of the second major Ismaili sect, the Mustalid Ismailis (or Bohras) and has an unnecessary emphasis on the Aga Khan (the head of the Nizari Ismaili sect) as opposed to Ismailism in general.
Furthermore, there are some inaccuracies:
- Ismailis are inaccurately known as "sevener Shias". The term actually refers to a branch of Ismailis that accepted only the first 7 imams but the branch no longer survives. Although the number 7 is significant in Ismaili philosophy, present-day Ismailis accept far more than 7 imams and therefore to call them "sevener" is inaccurate.
- Re: "Unlike other Shia communities of Islam, this community has a living Imam, called the Aga Khan", apart from the fact that this only refers to Nizari Ismailism, technically ALL Shia follow a living Imam. This is the basis of Shiism, whereas in Sunnism one of four dead imams is followed. The difference between Nizari Ismailis and most other Shia groups is that the imam is regarded as hidden from the public eye in the latter case.
Shiaopinion 08:37, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- Jonah Blank has written a book called Mullahs on the Mainframe that details a lot of the customs and traditions of orthodox Dawoodi Bohras. It also contains a fairly detailed history of the community, dating back to the split between the followers of Imam Jaffer after his death.
Planning the overhaul
Let's start addressing each point. Here are my thoughts (and I will keep adding more):
- It seems odd to say, on the one hand, that "the majority of the Mustaalid Ismailis are known as Dawoodi Bohras" and, on the other, that "The Nizari Ismaili community are today headed by their 49th imam" [sic]. Shouldn't we go, in both cases, to saying something like "the largest <Mustali/Nizari> community is ...>
- As for whether it is appropriate to refer to Isma'ilis generally as "Seveners", that's how they are referred to, to differentiate them from other Shia schools—the reference is to their branch being formed because of a disagreement on the seventh imam—as opposed to the Zaidiyya, who disagreed on the fifth.—iFaqeer | Talk to me! 05:09, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
- I have made a change to the introduction of the followers of the Aga Khani.—iFaqeer | Talk to me! 21:26, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
