Talk: Family name
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European Surname First
I heard that some French also put family name before their given name. Can any French native confirm this?
- It's certainly common when addressing letters to French people, eg Monsieur MITTERAND, Francois,... (Berek - a Scot)
- When calling the names of students at the beginning of class, a French teacher would put the family name first. (Birnuson - studied in France)
- But those aren't normal speech. The introduction thing. It's like "Bond. James Bond". Canadian high school teachers sometimes take attendance that way too. But that's just because the names are listed like that when printed. (Surnames are almost always the basis of the order of names on lists) It doesn't mean the students would be called like that any other time. Is it different in France? --Menchi 01:31, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Russian endings
What about the Russian custom of altering a family name's ending based upon the person's gender, e.g. -ov -> -ova?
England
Does this sentence intend to mean only in England, excluding Wales and Northern Ireland (I see Scotland has its own laws but cannot determine if they affect the choice of name)?
- In England the parents can choose the name of the child, the registra must obey their wishes. In Scotland the registar has the right to refuse to register a name if they feel it is inappropriate, though this right is rarely exercised. I'm not sure the article is correct now, but it's too late for me too check. Zeimusu 14:53, 2004 Oct 28 (UTC)
The last name is usually the father's family name, although in England the parents are legally free to choose any surname when the child's birth is registered, and unmarried parents often choose the mother's name.
As an aside I am surprised sexual equality hasn't fully reached the UK's birth and marriage registration procedures (see [1] and [2]). -Wikibob | Talk 22:02, 2004 May 8 (UTC)
Sons
I understand how, say, William - son of John - becomes William Johnson. But the same logic dictates that William's offspring become Williamsons, and so on. Does any know when names became 'fixed' (so that, e.g., all William's antecedents became Williamsons)? Adambisset 22:57, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- In England The introduction of the poll tax (1380) was significant people had to register in a locally unique name, also a requirement that people bringing cases to court had to declare their name and "affiliation" either their family name, or their guild or trade led to many of the fixed family names. Add to that the fact that aristocrats already had clan or house names, meant that the newly rich merchent classes wanted to add a bit of class by taking their own family names and the trend spread through society. About 13th-15th century in England. Other countries have different histories. Zeimusu
I wasn't sure where to put this, but in many parts of Ethiopia, women use their father's given name as their own surname. If somebody could work that it, it would be great. Rhymeless | (Methyl Remiss) 07:39, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
