Talk: Australian rules football
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Are there really no older professional teams? I have found some older cricket teams but don't know if they are professional or not. ---rmhermen
In fact, professionalism was not allowed by the VFL until its Rule 29 of 1911 (although under-the-table payments may well have occurred), and Melbourne FC was famous for being amateur for many years afterwards, so I don't think this can be justified. Grant65 10:28, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I understand and appreciate the writer's enthusiasm for the sport, but the last sentence in partciular needs to be rephrased to be less partisan about its alleged superiority over other variants of football.
No, I agree with the author of the article. Where he says there are other leagues in Australia, he is not referring to variants of the sport, he is referring to other groups of teams who play each other- other divisions, so to speak. For instance, in Western Australia, there is the WAFL- the West Australian Football League. More people are interested in the AFL than regional leagues like WAFL, therefore AFL is more popular. I don't think the author's comment at the end is unjustified, or biased at all. -- Mark Ryan
By the way, I wrote a bunch more stuff for this article months ago that seems to have been lost by somebody's errant revision. I hope the new wikipedia software will support a complete revision history. . . Robert Merkel
I saw some games on TV in the US. Who's the guy in the white suit who waves around flags when a goal is scored? Shouldn't this be mentioned in the article somewhere?
I like the diagrams, but the font is much too small. Daniel Quinlan 08:31, Aug 2, 2003 (UTC)
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Winter
What is the difference between summer and winter in Australia, that the same fields are used but for different sports? -- Error
I have to take issue with the following -
"All of the original VFL clubs are still in existence, with the exception of South Melbourne Football Club who in 1982 relocated to Sydney and became known as the Sydney Swans and the Fitzroy which merged with the Brisbane in 1996 due to financial difficulties."
Does "exist" mean the club no longer plays in the VFL/AFL, or no longer exists? Fitzroy still exists as an amateur club. RoyalDave
History
The history section on this page needs to be corrected to bring it into line with the information on this site http://www.fullpointsfooty.net/melbourne.htm, but I'l leave that to the Aussies. Mintguy (T) 14:21, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Mintguy has a point, although I've said to him elsewhere Talk:Football, I think fullpointsfooty.net is wrong on the early history. In fact, a lot of the histories of Aussie rules available on the web seem to be terrible and contradictory. We have a great opportunity to do better :-) Anyway, I've expanded and updated the history section. In particular, I've addressed some inaccuracies, such as (1) the role of H.C.A. Harrison, which seems to be exaggerated by almost everyone except serious historians; (2) the previous omission of the experiments at the Richmond Paddock, and (3) the "significance" of the game between Melbourne Grammar and Scotch College in 1858. To name a few. Grant65 18:10, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I just had another look at Blainey's A Game of Our Own (1990; there is a 2003 edition, which I haven't seen yet), and Rob Hess & Bob Stewart's More Than A Game (1998). The latter book provides a few more details: they say that "a rugby ball" was used in the experimental game on July 31, 1858; that people of various backgrounds were involved, and; that rules were supposed to have been formulated afterwards, although these have not survived.
Hess & Stewart barely mention the Melbourne Grammar v. Scotch College match on August 7. Blainey is a prolific promoter of that game (cynics might say because of his own background), but he doesn't discuss the rules either. (However, it is known that Wills did umpire that game.)
Re. the other drafters of the 1859 rules, Hess & Stewart say that, like Wills, Hammersley and Thompson were ex-Cambridge University, and Smith was Irish and had attended Trinity College in Dublin. (There are some similarities between the Cambridge rules and Aussie rules, see Football#The Establishment of Modern Codes of Football.) Hess & Stewart say Harrison was not involved. They also cite a letter to a Melbourne newspaper in 1864, suggesting that the English Football Association rules of 1863 had been by influenced by the Melbourne FC rules! Grant65 10:28, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Grant. You've just reminded me of something with that last sentence. Some time ago I tried to find out about early proponents of Association football in Australia but I found virtually no information about this. I did find out that early bodies subscribing to the FA rules included the Southern British Football Association in New South Wales, the Anglo-Australian Football Association in Victoria and the British Football Associations of Queensland, South Australia and Tasmania. But I couldn't find any dates relating to the establishment and/or demise of these organisations. Mintguy (T) 10:56, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Mintguy, see the latest comments on my talk page. Grant65 13:19, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)~
The article states that the VFA was formed in 1877, but the list of teams is incorrect. For example, Essendon is not listed as a team in the VFA in 1877, but they finished fourth in that year.
There is also no mention of the earlier Victorian competition that preceded the VFA. B.d.mills 12:54, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Rules
I think the section on the rules could be expanded. Basic information like the number of players is lacking, and can only be deduced from studying the images. Abigail 10:48, Mar 11, 2004 (UTC)
It seems that I am far from the only one who has mixed up the various games played in 1858. [1] Mintguy (T) 13:13, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Rugby League
To explain my last edit: it's not accurate to say that Aussie Rules was "developed as an alternative to Rugby", with a link to Rugby League, because Aussie Rules was invented long before there was any such thing as "Rugby League" and before there was even much Rugby Football outside Rugby School. Neither would it be accurate to describe Aussie Rules as an offshoot of Rugby. See Football#The_Establishment_of_Modern_Codes_of_Football. Grant65 (Talk) 21:09, Apr 12, 2004 (UTC)
Australian Rules Football <-> Australian Football League
I added a section today, under the "Future teams" heading. However on re-reading it seems that the entire "teams" section, as well as my additional section, should really go in the Australian Football League article. However I figured if this was right, someone would have done it already. Ideas anyone? -- Chuq 00:16, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The article indicates that the IAFC is the official administrative body for Australian rules football internationally but I think you would get a very different view on that from the AFL, who see themselves as the official international representative body for the sport. If someone can come up with a statement from the AFL that it recognises the IAFC as the official international body though, I'd be happy to retain the reference. --Roisterer 04:05, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
